Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?

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From: Bryan Allen
Subject: Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Date: 18:20 on 18 Jul 2005
On Jul 18, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Tony Bowden wrote:

> Most users of CPAN code are professional programmers or suitable  
> skilled
> hackers who should be able to tell reasonably quickly by looking at  
> the
> code whether it does what they need. Why isn't that enough?
>
> Do we really need a Perl equivalent of the Nihil Obstat and  
> Imprimatur?
>

Simply having a Phalanx-approved (or whatever standards body) stamp  
on a module would get you the same functionality, wouldn't it? Easy  
enough then for someone to search CPAN for only modules that have  
passed some arbitrary rules of kwalitee. Ratings  get you modules  
that are really useful regardless of kwalitee. Except from the  
perspective of enjoying semi-useful metadata, I don't really see the  
point as all the useful modules I use I've found via word of mouth  
(the fleshy kind, mailing lists, IRC).

For new programmers, a "de fact standards of CPAN" in each category/ 
namespace might be really useful though, be it a wiki or set of  
articles.

Personally, I love the CPAN. I don't want to have to go googling for  
modules that do what I need, or check sourceforge, freshmeat, some  
random script archive, etc. I want to type "cpanp" and install and  
have it do all the heavy lifting for me. I'm lazy! (And honestly I  
have better things to be doing than going and finding where some  
module might be living on the webbernet -- like using it!)

I *especially* don't want to have to manually download and compile  
all of a modules dependencies. There are ways around this, but to  
emulate the same functionality as CPAN in automagically grabbing  
deps, it would add to the a module author's maintenance work, no?  
"Module x needs module y, both of which are on the CPAN, and I've  
defined lowball versions" as opposed to "Module x needs y which is at  
this URL, only oops it changed, now I need to release an update with  
the new URL for the tarball..." The nice thing about having a  
centralized repository is it means there is a standard way of  
accessing information/data, rather than being stuck with what some  
random developer feels to be best practices.


> Why is there *any* expectation of support just because something's on
> CPAN?
>
> I do think that one problem seems to be that a lot of users seem to  
> have
> a different idea of what level of support is implied by a CPAN release
> than a lot of authors.
>

This is a problem with FOSS in general. The moment you release a  
piece of software that people want to use, you are beholden to them  
(in their eyes) to maintain it, add features they think would be  
useful, all for free and now now now. Perhaps they assume you owe  
them for using your software instead of someone else's, so you will  
do work at no cost for them! This isn't a new phenomenon... maybe a  
sudden influx of users recently has made it more apparent to you, or  
your annoyance threshold has finally been reached.

(This may be analogous to someone becoming a "public figure" and  
immediately their life is assumed to be an open book by both the  
media and the public. You are Known and people Use Your Stuff, so you  
have given consent for everyone to play Project Manager with your Time.)

I find it somewhat amusing that users who pay for their software seem  
to assume that things will be broken and suck; once they start using  
free software, they assume they have the right to demand things be  
fixed or changed in monumental ways. Instead of dealing with a  
faceless corporation they have a real human being to make noises at.

I *hope* I've never been guilty of this. :)

Just do what the OpenBSD guys do: "This is the way things are. If you  
don't like it, submit a patch and we'll explain why you're a waste of  
skin. We don't work for you, piss off." Especially if people are  
being asshats.
--
bda
cyberpunk is dead. long live cyberpunk.

(message missing)

Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 15:24 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:33 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 15:57 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:57 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dan Sully 16:06 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:34 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
William Ross 16:59 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 16:23 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:29 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Stephen Quinney 08:43 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 09:14 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 13:13 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
merlyn (Randal L. Schwartz) 13:27 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:03 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 16:11 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:41 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 17:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 18:13 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Christopher Hicks 19:12 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 18:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 16:23 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:57 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 17:11 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:34 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 17:51 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 20:23 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 17:54 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bryan Allen 18:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:55 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 19:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Cees Hek 19:17 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bogart Salzberg 20:37 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Sam Vilain 06:05 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
leif.eriksen 06:22 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 08:10 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 13:40 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 14:47 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 15:00 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:10 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Gordon Haverland 15:59 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:27 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tyler Rorabaugh 16:33 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 16:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:48 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
hartzell 20:52 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 21:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Aaron Trevena 18:44 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 10:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Edward J. Sabol 19:15 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:21 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Edward J. Sabol 19:31 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:32 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dana Hudes 02:33 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 02:54 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rick Measham 21:27 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael G Schwern 21:34 on 17 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Andrew O'Brien 00:26 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 00:34 on 19 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 08:03 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 08:05 on 19 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Andrew O'Brien 01:04 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 17:06 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:07 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dana Hudes 17:24 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 18:18 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Sebastian Riedel 18:40 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
leif.eriksen 03:01 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 07:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 13:52 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 14:55 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael Peters 14:56 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:16 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:16 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:36 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 18:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:47 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael Peters 19:30 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:44 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 20:32 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 20:41 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:45 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Scott McWhirter 19:19 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:29 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rick Measham 00:23 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bryan Allen 19:24 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:24 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:38 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
hartzell 20:53 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
merlyn (Randal L. Schwartz) 21:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 21:50 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:58 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:56 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rhesa Rozendaal 20:34 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 23:01 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
David Baird 00:31 on 19 Jul 2005


Peter Speltz 05:54 on 20 Jul 2005

Re: your mail
Tony Bowden 07:19 on 20 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:43 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: your mail
Peter Speltz 16:12 on 20 Jul 2005

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