Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?

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From: Brett Sanger
Subject: Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Date: 13:13 on 18 Jul 2005
On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 10:14:55AM +0100, Tony Bowden wrote:
> For the most part, I agree. My problems with CPAN aren't so much
> technical as social. I don't know whether the dynamic has changed, or
> whether I'm just now noticing it, or whether it's just a natural result
> of having so many modules on CPAN. I've talked to at least two other
> high profile CPAN authors who have expressed the same reservations. I
> still need to talk to others to see if I can pin this down better.

I'm unsure what problem with CPAN you are referring to.  You said you
have a problem, and you've said it's social, but I'm unclear of what the
problem is.  Can you be more specific?  (Or, since you imply above that
you can't yet be specific, can you give a general description?)

> As I said earlier in the thread, I am, to a certain extent, playing
> deliberately obtuse to see where the conversation goes. I was hoping
> that might lead to an interesting discussion on the merits of CPAN vs
> other means of distribution. I seem to have expected too much.

Well I know I've kept out as I'm just a new CDBI user, and I didn't want
to try and take sides in the name-calling.  However, if you're asking
for general opinions:  
	
CPAN is "official" because that's the general case.  Most (all?)
published Perl resources point to it as such.  CPAN publciation has
various technical benefits, but of far more importance is that it IS one
centrally agreed location.  If something shows up on CPAN, I know that
the rest of the community can see it and react to it.  If it's
worthwhile and falls out of maintenance, someone can step up for it.
The Mini::CPAN repository all our machines at work build off of pulls
from CPAN as it's source, without maintaining a list of "exception"
sites.

CPAN is a major reason Perl is so successfully adopted by many
organizations.  Other languages might disdain perl's other "features",
but want to emulate the focused collection of language power that CPAN
represents.  I argued with Dan and Chip at YAPC that Parrot would not
succeed without some reason for other languages to want to get on board;
I argued that CPAN could be that reason.  (Dan argued that there simply
aren't enough people of sufficient skill and knowledge in the industry
for the group to grow significantly, and that they should focus on Perl
6 for now.  I'll defer to his expertise, but my argument stands as an
example of why CPAN is good.)  When someone goes to solve a problem,
they have one place to go to see what solutions have been done before.
Individual sites might be searched by Google, but they don't get the
peer review that CPAN does.

This does not mean that a module on CPAN is going to be GOOD.  Far from
it.  But it does mean that if someone HAS written a good module, I
expect it to be there.  If a module is bad, and the need is real,
someone will write a good module, and put it on CPAN, so again, CPAN is
the place to go to.

I, as yet another overworked programmer, don't have time to search every
google hit to see if that's the correct solution.  I count on the
community to give me hints.  I check CPAN, I look for active development
and the rt bugs, and I use what I come up with, or decide that no good
solution currently exists.

That's why I argue for CPAN.  If a release hasn't gone onto CPAN, I
consider it a developer release that shouldn't go into production work.
That may not be the most technically correct means, but it's the
sustainable path when I have all current and future module needs to
consider.

I hope that is some of the discussion you were hoping for.

> The thing that has surprised me most about 0.96 is how remarkably stable
> it is. There just hasn't really been a need for many bug fixes. The fixes

If you want to argue that there is no need for a new release as of yet,
I won't complain.  I'll just argue in favor of a CPAN release when there
IS a new stable release.

        -- 
        SwiftOne  /  Brett Sanger
swiftone@xxxxxxxx.xxx

(message missing)

Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 15:24 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:33 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 15:57 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:57 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dan Sully 16:06 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:34 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
William Ross 16:59 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 16:23 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:29 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Stephen Quinney 08:43 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 09:14 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 13:13 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
merlyn (Randal L. Schwartz) 13:27 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:03 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 16:11 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:41 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 17:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 18:13 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Christopher Hicks 19:12 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 18:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 16:23 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:57 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 17:11 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:34 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 17:51 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 20:23 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 17:54 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bryan Allen 18:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:55 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 19:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Cees Hek 19:17 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bogart Salzberg 20:37 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Sam Vilain 06:05 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
leif.eriksen 06:22 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 08:10 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Casey West 13:40 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 14:47 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Brett Sanger 15:00 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:10 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Gordon Haverland 15:59 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:27 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tyler Rorabaugh 16:33 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 16:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 16:48 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
hartzell 20:52 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 21:05 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Aaron Trevena 18:44 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 10:20 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Edward J. Sabol 19:15 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:21 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Edward J. Sabol 19:31 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:32 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dana Hudes 02:33 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 02:54 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rick Measham 21:27 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael G Schwern 21:34 on 17 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Andrew O'Brien 00:26 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 00:34 on 19 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Simon Wilcox 08:03 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 08:05 on 19 Jul 2005

RE: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Andrew O'Brien 01:04 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 17:06 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 17:07 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Dana Hudes 17:24 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 18:18 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Sebastian Riedel 18:40 on 17 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
leif.eriksen 03:01 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 07:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 13:52 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 14:55 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael Peters 14:56 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 15:16 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:16 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:36 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Mike Whitaker 18:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:47 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Michael Peters 19:30 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:44 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ask_Bj=F8rn_Hansen?= 20:32 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 20:41 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 18:45 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Scott McWhirter 19:19 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:29 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rick Measham 00:23 on 19 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Bryan Allen 19:24 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:24 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:38 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:39 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
hartzell 20:53 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
merlyn (Randal L. Schwartz) 21:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 21:50 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:35 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Matt S Trout 19:58 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:56 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Rhesa Rozendaal 20:34 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 23:01 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
David Baird 00:31 on 19 Jul 2005


Peter Speltz 05:54 on 20 Jul 2005

Re: your mail
Tony Bowden 07:19 on 20 Jul 2005

Re: Wherefore the 1.0 release?
Tony Bowden 19:43 on 18 Jul 2005

Re: your mail
Peter Speltz 16:12 on 20 Jul 2005

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